View Full Version : Satoh's Sprites : Supuraitto no Satou
This is my attempt at MMX style Roll for my Megaman: The Rejects game.
I think she needs to be a liiiiiiiittle bit shorter though... Sadly I don't think I have the time or patience to do the whole sheet... Which is why I hope someone can replicate the style...
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/eremes/XRoll.png
C+C?
Thanatos-Zero
26-11-09, 22:17
I donīt know how big Roll is comparred to X, but you did a good job here.
Maybe this can help you to determine the heigh of Roll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJZXdEotcFY
Zero and X have about the same heigh, so Rollīs heigh should be cut by one head.
Of cource, when she is supposed to appear like an adult woman, make her a bit smaller like you suggested it.
Right, sorry that's something I didn't mention. I'm glad you said that. Yes, Roll (after a few hundred years) has been upgraded a bit, and has been refitted to be roughly between teenage to 25ish in visual age. But I'm also assuming she wouldn't be an extremely tall woman by any means...
I'll go ahead and (re?)state that Roll will be the final boss of my game (and likely an unlockable player character). This means she would need some refitting of some sort... (because she had no combat capabilities before).
Thanks for the critique too.
Her hair looks weird and she looks very manly in that pose. =/
that's because the pose is that of X.
As for the hair, it's the same hair from her MM8 sprite.
The sprite is about as good as I can make it without spending another several hours on that one pose...
You haven't proven your point. Obviously it's X's pose. WHY is it Xs pose? =/
And, if its from the MM8 sprite, why is it in an MMX sprite?
I like the pose she's in. Makes her look like she's ready to fight someone. And I assume, since she's a final boss, that's exactly what you needed. I'm not sure what part seems masculine to lern, perhaps it's the size of her hands? Or maybe the thickness of her legs?
I suggest you thin her legs, and shrink her hands. That way she'll be more feminine, and you can keep the pose! Yay! :P
(EDIT)- By legs I meant the exposed part of her legs. Keep her boots the way they are. Just thin the upper part a bit.
You haven't proven your point. Obviously it's X's pose. WHY is it Xs pose? =/
And, if its from the MM8 sprite, why is it in an MMX sprite?
Because it takes place in the X time-line albeit a bit OOC.
Because Roll had no walking, running, jumping, or pretty much any form of action poses in MM8, the only sprites of her I could find from 8 were standing and wagging her finger coyly.
Because Roll was a lot BIGGER in MM8... I had to shrink the head and redo a small portion of the anti-aliasing that became a bit jaunty. Aside from that her hair is as it always is.
Because I drew the original, much taller version, on top of X to get my initial prototype. I have since revised the scale and positioning into what you see here, and a little more which I've yet to host.
Because, while I can draw a single sprite in a specific pose, I cannot draw action poses well, nor can I keep my sprites entirely consistent without using a reference model.
Because I'm an student artist, not de Vinci or Michaelangelo.
Because I simply can't think of what kind of pose an angry Roll scorned would look like.
The hands are big because they always seemed to be big in my opinion, and because X's hands are that size. The hands are about the only part of X I used directly, and Roll's MM8 head as well, but heavily modified to be the right size.
While these may be excuses, to be quite direct, it's because I don't currently have the time, energy, or ability to do much better than this right now. Maybe if it were summer I could spend more time on it (in truth each sprite pose takes me a few hours to get to my satisfaction) but I doubt I'd have the patience to make it perfect.
AND, last but not least, I really suck at animation. If I use X's animations, I know I'll at least look halfway decent.
I'll try to think out her knees... I'll post the newest version after the revision.
That Guy Over There
27-11-09, 18:51
Hey hey, I think we all need to calm the hell down a little. The atmosphere and groove in this thread is starting to get a lil aggressive.
Anyways, hair and everything aside, the only complaint I have is the rather plain color job on the lower part of her dress. It's a stark contrast compared to the rest of the detail the sprite has.
Hey hey, I think we all need to calm the hell down a little. The atmosphere and groove in this thread is starting to get a lil aggressive.
Anyways, hair and everything aside, the only complaint I have is the rather plain color job on the lower part of her dress. It's a stark contrast compared to the rest of the detail the sprite has.
Sorry, I'm not trying to seem aggressive, though I may very well be failing at not.
I agree on the dress part... but I spent probably 15 minute on it alone and coul figure out what else to do to it... 'Flowing' garments are hard, but coupled with the fact that Roll's dress is slightly stiff too... I just couldn't figure it out... I only have 3 red's to work with, so I tried to use them as best I could to get the most contrast...
That Guy Over There
27-11-09, 19:07
I really shouldn't be criticizing other people on shading, since I tend to suck at it myself... :X But I was thinking something along these lines:
http://i46.tinypic.com/1zbb42f.png
It doesn't have to be a flowing dress, just...a prominent one.
Ok, is this a bit better?
That Guy Over There
27-11-09, 19:43
Yep! :)
2/11 jump frames ready for critique...
I tried to keep all previous things in mind... the feet on the left one I'm not entirely satisfied with, but I couldn't get them any better.
The arm on the right one is a little bit hidden... I'm not sure how to fix it either... (Trying to give Roll at least some difference in style from X)
RyuReiatsu
27-11-09, 22:42
2/11 jump frames ready for critique...
I tried to keep all previous things in mind... the feet on the left one I'm not entirely satisfied with, but I couldn't get them any better.
The arm on the right one is a little bit hidden... I'm not sure how to fix it either... (Trying to give Roll at least some difference in style from X)
C+P the head is a no-no.
It's not like X's head isn't a carbon copy on 90% of his frames....
Anyway, here is the next few revisions...
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/eremes/rollxjmp1.png
Because it takes place in the X time-line albeit a bit OOC.
That's not a reason for you to take X's pose, it's a reason for X style, MAYBE, not pose.
Because Roll had no walking, running, jumping, or pretty much any form of action poses in MM8, the only sprites of her I could find from 8 were standing and wagging her finger coyly.
So atleast change standing pose.
Because Roll was a lot BIGGER in MM8... I had to shrink the head and redo a small portion of the anti-aliasing that became a bit jaunty. Aside from that her hair is as it always is.
Just make a new hair. I don't really like it in this sprite.
Because I drew the original, much taller version, on top of X to get my initial prototype. I have since revised the scale and positioning into what you see here, and a little more which I've yet to host.
Why would ROLL be taller than X?!
Because, while I can draw a single sprite in a specific pose, I cannot draw action poses well, nor can I keep my sprites entirely consistent without using a reference model.
Fair enough.
Because I'm an student artist, not de Vinci or Michaelangelo.
That's where I come in- To help you become a da Vinci/etc.
Because I simply can't think of what kind of pose an angry Roll scorned would look like.
Hmm. Well, Not MANLY. Angry women aren't MANLY, they have their own unique pose. Try to get a girl angry and make a picture. ;P
The hands are big because they always seemed to be big in my opinion, and because X's hands are that size. The hands are about the only part of X I used directly, and Roll's MM8 head as well, but heavily modified to be the right size.
Well, if you change the pose you won't need these crappy hands :o (No offense intended, aye?)
While these may be excuses, to be quite direct, it's because I don't currently have the time, energy, or ability to do much better than this right now. Maybe if it were summer I could spend more time on it (in truth each sprite pose takes me a few hours to get to my satisfaction) but I doubt I'd have the patience to make it perfect.
You know, even though this is the worst reason to exist EVER, it is the only one I sympathize with. So, yeah, Fair enough, again.
AND, last but not least, I really suck at animation. If I use X's animations, I know I'll at least look halfway decent.
Well, just change her standing pose :o
I'll try to think out her knees... I'll post the newest version after the revision.
Great, can't wait. :P
Karnstantine
28-11-09, 13:39
...*facepalm*. You ought to have given it a rest, Lern. Also, don't forget that altering her standing pose would alter certain poses following, like the starting frames of walking, or jumping. Though, the hand issue seems like it would be a pretty easy fix, if everyone's complaining. Just move the outlines and details inward one pixel, although I hardly think it necessary, nor do I think it would end well.
So yeah. Also, a thought for this, if it wouldn't be too difficult: have the hair move with the motions, like dragging behind in the air during the jump fall, or while running, like Capcom did with Zero's.
Otherwise, keep it civil, folks.
So yeah. Also, a thought for this, if it wouldn't be too difficult: have the hair move with the motions, like dragging behind in the air during the jump fall, or while running, like Capcom did with Zero's.
Otherwise, keep it civil, folks.
I had planned on it, but the hair would be a post processing tweak...
As for now... I simply don't have the time for this drastic a sprite set...
I'm moving on to a MML sidescroller... using X 1's sprites as a base... I'm not even gonna bother showing them here because I'm satisfied with them and you all wouldn't be.
Blackbeltdude
01-12-09, 21:59
I'm moving on to a MML sidescroller... using X 1's sprites as a base... I'm not even gonna bother showing them here because I'm satisfied with them and you all wouldn't be.
I think that's completely fair to say. But I also think you're missing out on some potentially constructive criticism. I honestly don't see a problem with Lern saying that you should change Roll's pose, because you should. That's how X stands, and doesn't show any of Roll's personality (she's also too big, even with an "upgrade," and given that, she probably wouldn't dress like a child anymore).
As some that claims they're an art student, I would hope that you actually care about improving enough to get input from other people.
But if you're satisfied with your own work, then cool. If you don't want to see if there's room for improvement, that's also cool.
I think that's completely fair to say. But I also think you're missing out on some potentially constructive criticism. I honestly don't see a problem with Lern saying that you should change Roll's pose, because you should. That's how X stands, and doesn't show any of Roll's personality (she's also too big, even with an "upgrade," and given that, she probably wouldn't dress like a child anymore).
As some that claims they're an art student, I would hope that you actually care about improving enough to get input from other people.
But if you're satisfied with your own work, then cool. If you don't want to see if there's room for improvement, that's also cool.
It has nothing to do with not caring about room for improvement, it has to do with this being recreational work as opposed to quality-of-life degrading work...
If you think something could be done better, give a suggestion, because I know it can be done better, or I wouldn't be posting at all.
Helpful:
By legs I meant the exposed part of her legs. Keep her boots the way they are. Just thin the upper part a bit.
Not so much:
C+P the head is a no-no.
As for Roll's personality, I'm not worried at all about it... If Roll were still acting like Roll, she wouldn't be boss or even minor enemy material.
I'll probably not show up here again at all until I'm done with my finals, the stress i nothing but detriment.
RyuReiatsu
02-12-09, 01:44
Well, my. My post wasn't helpful?
I don't bother to post a lot nowadays, I liked the sprite in general (other than the fact that she was too tall and stuffs. But it was all mentioned.)
The only thing left I had to add was that copypasting the head on her jump looked stupid. You barely changed a few pixels on her ribbon.
Well, then again. I guess that was uncalled for, right? Mr.Artist.
Forgot to specify: I know you've edited the head much more afterward. Just pointing out that my post was there before you even had done anything different.
[fish in space]
02-12-09, 02:15
so it seems like you don't want to take the critique people are giving soo... why did you post it?
Blackbeltdude
02-12-09, 02:24
It has nothing to do with not caring about room for improvement, it has to do with this being recreational work as opposed to quality-of-life degrading work...
Criticism should not degrade your life at all. If you're an art student, then I'm going to guess that you're pursuing a career in art. That being the case, you absolutely need a level of personal detachment from your work. Your clients won't care if they make you feel bad, if when all they say is, "this sucks." They might not even tell you with the right specifics how they want it fixed. They might say something like, "C+P the head is a no-no." If you work for someone, you're usually OK to explain why you made the choices you made, but you've got to be prepared to change it to the way they want it.
Now, no one here is your client, so there isn't that same kind of need in changing the work. But you should still have that same kind of personal detachment from it. These aren't attacks or even comments on your life at all; it's all about your work, and it has been in this thread.
But hopefully I'm just misinterpreting what you meant by life-degrading work. Because I've been around artsy kids a lot, and if it's one thing that drives me crazy, it's when they take crits personally, and say that it's ruining their life.
And as for Roll's personality, I highly recommend that you do give it some thought. :P Right now she has NONE. Her body language and expression are too neutral. Honestly, even X and Zero's stances in the game are boring, compared to the sprite work of games today (Muramasa Demon Blade, any fighting game). Even compared to Megaman 8, or Street Fighter Alpha (compare Guy's stance to Fei Long's, or E.Honda's). If she's a boss, I want to see her stance reflect some power, or some motive. More importantly, the silhouette should be inherently her's, as that makes the character design better.
Use baby steps; changing the idle stance of the character from the base you used is the first step in making something completely from scratch later on. Even if using all of X's poses is easier when you make a sheet, you still lose the essence of the new character if you don't change mannerisms and gestures. This is basically a more critical step in good character design than it is in pixel technique (which seems fine, aside from not masking what base you've used).
I was implementation of the changes to the sprites being ruination...
Think: Van Gogh's ear, even though I know what's wrong, I still can't get it right.
Also, I apologize that I made it seem I felt you were attacking me. I don't. Honestly I do have a perfectionist streak in me a mile wide and 42 long... the problem with that is: I end up spending all my time on one small detail, and get so tired of looking at it that I scrap the whole project. I really didn't want to do that here... but it seems I'm just under too much pressure from my other "more important" issues to trudge through this and make a win out of a fail.
I apologize again. Though I was trying not to be hostile in my posts, in hindsight, I obviously failed.
What irked me more about the criticism was that I could see the obvious truth in the majority of it... I still like Roll being a little more adult sized... and frankly I just couldn't design a new outfit that suited her but looked more...evil. (I damn well tried though. I have a few art book pages full of scrapped designs... mostly due to not having enough pixels to fit in the key details, and otherwise just not liking the end result)
In all honesty I think I was probably deflecting my inward anger at you all. And again, I apologize.
(X's head IS copied a lot on his sprites though...not that that's an excuse)
I wish I had Capcom's animation staff... (Hell, I wish I could just get my tablet working again... I miss it dearly)
As for "artsy kids," I know exactly what you mean. I realize I sounded just like them, looking back.
As for my MML sprite comment... well... I used the exact same head in every pose, and I'm not even really sure I like the hair. But overall I accomplished my goal in making them: A quick edit of X that's mostly passable as Trigger.
On paper (or PS CS2 actually) they don't look very amazing, but once they're animated it's easy to forget about the little flaws. It's not even unlikely that I'll go back through later and redo them entirely, which is why I said I'm not gonna bother with them here. IE: I'm fine with them for now, and I know you wouldn't like them. XD
In fairness I'd actually like to stick around and do some more stuff here, but I know it's a bad idea when I'm in such a perpetual bad mood that my classes are putting me in. I'm just doing myself a favor and not making an even bigger ass of myself while I hopefully still have a little face to save.
To answer Mr. Python, I posted because I wanted help with my sprites... I wasn't really thinking about whether I could actually stomach it. Apparently I can't right now.
Adding to my frustration at that which should be relaxing, I've had to redesign my entire movement engine 4 times now and am shooting for a fifth...
That all said, I'm off to write a paper...
[fish in space]
02-12-09, 13:17
well, um, keep working at it. taking critique is pretty much the only thing you can do when you get frustrated like that.
That Guy Over There
03-12-09, 16:05
I dunno.
I gave him a fairly detailed critique, and there wasn't any static between us. =/ Why's everyone getting so edgy around here?
Hey guys, long time no freak-out-on-you-all...
I'm gonna try to be less...broken this time around...(not that I was doing it on purpose before.)
I recently went through about 80 bajillion phases and projects... but finally came back to this MML sidescroller idea.
Here is my progress on Trigger (modified from MMX as I said oh so long ago)... I haven't given him a proper at-ease standing position yet... a few frames here or there are not finished in things like the jumping animation...
Yes, the heads are copied. I did it mainly because it was simple, but secondarily because Trigger's head doesn't turn when he runs.
I was at one point considering using nothing but ripped video of him doing things in MML1, but some actions wouldn't permit the proper camera angle...
I messed with the buster arm for a while before deciding I couldn't make it look any better... That's one thing I'd specifically like some help with...
There are a few errant sprites I haven't decided to keep or not yet, like the shiny shooting sprite and such... Those are generally off to the side somewhere...
Your thoughts?
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/eremes/xTriggerSheet.png
Only little thoughts
First, did you change anything except for the head?
Of course you did how could I underestimate your minimal yet quite nice and simplistic modifications of X's body. Of course, I would doubt its accuracy and say more had I been able to, but I'm not a Trigger fanatic. I loved the game, dont get me wrong. its just...uhm...not my cup of megaman.
If anyone tries bricking me for stupid puns I will bring out a bat and crush the bricks you throw followed by crushing your heads.
Second, his head looks like its looking at this angle \\ instead of this one =. Of course, thats because X's head looks this way without the helmet, but you should still fix it.
Third, his hair spikes are... not enough? Yeah. Except for climbing, not enough hair spikes.
Initially all I had done to X was change the head, and add knee guards...
Then I added some... slightly invisible shoe detail... The last thing I did was try to straighten the shape of his shins so they're more cylindrical, and added the lighter blue ring at the bottom... I had planned on adding the ring to he hands, but it ended up being A: a lack of space or B: just looking awful and obscuring the fact that he had hands...
I'm sure it can be done, but I didn't want to spend hours on each arm of each sprite... It's not very conducive to a game development project.
I agree there should be more hair spikes... but I really haven't figured out how to add more without making a full-on mess of the head... yet. Same for the face.
I'm thinking that once I get a decent at-ease standing position, with one good head on it, the rest of the shooting and running etc. sprites won't look as obvious.
On the climbing heads, I'm glad to see that there were no initial problems mentioned about them, I probably spent the most time on them that I did on the sheet all of that day.
Also: I support the use of Megaman as a liquid. No bricking required from me.
Here is a full custom sheet of animated refractors. I realize I didn't have the profile expand and contract as they turn... I did that on purpose... for... some... reason... Also some energy cubes in there...
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/eremes/refractor.png
I hesitate to ask for C+C on them as I don't really see a lot of activity going on... but I will anyway. How do they look?
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