i've always wondered: pd vs private

[waw]

I've always wondered, what's the point of 'private sprites' instead of PD?

Don't we all technically steal sprites anyways from Capcom, Nintendo, and all the others? So why aren't all sprites considered PD?

Ok, so someone puts a lot of time and effort into making a sprite, probably for their own project. So are we saying that someone didn't of PD?

We are all thieves, what are the lines of honor?

Now... claiming to have made somebody's sprite is obviously an error, we don't claim to have made Capcom's sprites. But if Joe makes A Metaman sprite, why can't we all use it? Is there any actual 'actions' that can be done against said thief or is it basically shunning that person?

EDIT: Barring 'scratched' sprites though. Scratch goes without saying, that's working on your own.

[turpinator]

You may want to revise what you've just said, because along with me, you've just offended quite a few scratch spriters of "theft".

[Plaz]

When we edit a sprite from Capcom, we are using it as a base to create our own intellectual property. If a person uses another's intellectual property without permission, it is theft. If someone claims to have made Megaman, it is theft. If Carl claims to have made Joe's Metaman, it is theft.

[turpinator]

When a person creates a one-off custom of a copyright character, it's not the character that is labelled as PD or Private, it is the work that was done, and the style that it was done in. No one here assumes that the fanwork they've done of a character automatically grants them rights to said character.

[waw]

Right, and no reason to be offended btw. You still jumped right over the issue that I'm seeing. You are talking about 'intellectual property'. Using it without permission is theft.

Isn't that what we are all technically doing anyways?

For example, someone labeled a recent work of a normal character edited and redone as 'PD'. I don't understand why it shouldn't be considered PD anyways. That isn't their character is it? Sure they edited it and worked on it, but so did Capcom's official spriters?

I guess I'm looking for a good reason why people shouldn't steal each other's sprites. We all want wants out to be 'ours' but doesn't that defeat the purpose of doing all of this anyways? We are stealing sprites from games, even when we edit or do fan-versions. A unique and custom character set in the style of a game may be a little different, but we are still stealing the unique and custom Mega Man from Capcom.

EDIT: Really, being a question and a discussion nobody should be offended or defensive. I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

[DragonZero]

You do have a point, I suppose. But there are some things to consider.
Firstly, it will come to a point where Edits become so Heavy that although they weren't really made from Scratch it's pretty difficult, if not flat-out impossible, to tell what the bases were. At a point like that, you've almost done as much work on the Sprite as Capcom has.
And while you're right in the sense that that "normal edited PD Character" isn't really that original and still greatly resembles Capcom's work, the Character and the Idea that the Spriter is trying to convey is still their own Original Concept and therefore their property. Sprite-wise, it's debatable, but the Character itself is still theirs, and really, that's the only reason why people don't want others to steal their Sprites: it's stealing the Character and the Concept that they're trying to create and convey through a pixelated Medium.

Besides, while I can see why you'd think posting Unusable Non-PD Sprites is pointless, usually it's done so that someone can get Critique and improve while still keeping their Sprites as exclusively their own. Personally though, I almost consider Sprite Theft a compliment. I mean, if someone's impressed enough with my work that they want to steal it and claim that they made it, it's sort of flattering.

[waw]

That's a good point.

And I figured that's why people would post it, I just didn't always see what the big problem was.

So what's the difference from taking from Capcom and taking form say, one of you guys?

[Wanderer]

The thing is, Capcom has pretty much stated that they don't care what we do with their sprites, so long as it's non-profit.

[[fish in space]]

Right, and no reason to be offended btw. You still jumped right over the issue that I'm seeing. You are talking about 'intellectual property'. Using it without permission is theft.

Isn't that what we are all technically doing anyways?

You just repeated what he said people would be offended about. Many, if not most spriters scratch their sprites making their own characters which are their own intellectual property for their own uses. Thats why people make their sprites "private"

[waw]

Hmm...
So the difference is Capcom said they don't care...

And that other people do?

Well that makes sense. Thanks for you time. I hadn't realized Capcom is indifferent, I mean, it's evident with them not shutting all the users-of-their-sprites down, so yeah....

[turpinator]

The reason why I didn't say that was because I assumed this was obvious. >_> We've been running this site for quite a number of years now, and no one has really challenged our intent, mainly because nothing we do here is profit oriented.

Shit, the admin PAYS money out of his pocket to run the site. That's what I call commitment. And hey, why would good 'ol Cap close us down if all we do is add to their fanbase and rep?

Also, like other people have said already, I was referring to the completely scratch people, not the "use a base, call it scratch" deal.

[Zan Sidera]

Don't we all technically steal sprites anyways from Capcom, Nintendo, and all the others? So why aren't all sprites considered PD?

Why don't we inverse that notion? Why aren't all sprites, including Capcom's, private?

The need to use Capcom's work, the need to use PD work, lies first and foremost with people not wanting to put out the effort, or not having the skill, to make it all for themselves.

Aside from that period of still learning the ropes as a spriter, the use of Capcom's designs, the use of Capcom's sprites, can only be excused when it's being used as a homage.

That is, someone making fan art of Rockman. Or someone making their own Rockman game in an established style. There's after all no need to remake what's already made, unless you think that the sprites aren't good enough for your needs and you can do better. Not even Capcom feels the need to remake sprites most of the time, X's SNES sheet is an example of this, and the exception is SNES Zero.

There's a thin line between outright stealing intellectual property and paying homage to it. Important is what you use it for, the original creator is aware of it, and that you acknowledge that it's not yours. If you use it tastefully, have permission and give credit where credit is due, it can be a homage.

Toward a company, permission is near impossible to obtain. So it's generally assumed the company is fine with it, unless they start giving you orders to stop.

When dealing with to non corporate work, permission from the original creator is vital, no ways around it. Unless of course you make it some sort of gift to the original creator. Drawing art of someone's character as a gift, meaning you're making it for them and not using it for any purpose of your own.

[waw]

Ah, that's what i was looking for. Thanks.