View Full Version : Sprites for the meat grinder
My, I'm certainly confident with these.
Regular pessimistic view of things aside, I have a single project I'm working on at the moment, and I've hit a bit of a snag. As loathe as I am to present these in their current state, a combination of... various factors has led to a lack of actual ideas for improvement. Improvement being much needed.
The two sprites are meant to be the same character, each simply being a different interpretation of the base design.
The one on the left is an edit, though I'm sure most of you can see that without my pointing it out. The one on the right is made mostly from scratch.
Theoretically, they're both in the ZX style. In reality, I do believe that only applies to the editted version.
Now, I have only one thing to say after that. If you're going to say something, have something helpful to say. For all I care, you could be as offensive and inflammatory about it as you want, but if you don't have something useful to say, than you really don't have any reason to be posting here.
And I say that simply because I think it needs to be mentioned again.
o.o
Wow, are these your first sprites?
They're pretty good O:
But, these are meant to be female right?
I suggest making the bangs a little more angley..they seem unkempt, now.
And the pelvic area sticks out too much..and the chest is a bit flat.
So she looks rather male.
If they are your first than they are really good.
No, these aren't my first. I would very much prefer these be my first than the unsightly monstrosities that had that claim.
Moving on, we have our first update.
Having tended to the above issues, success debatable, I took a moment to look at the sprite.
Something(read: paranoia) irked me about the colour scheme, resulting in the
application of an additional three varieties of blue/cyan. The original is on the far left.
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Tell me, is one of the alternate palettes better, or is my boundless paranoia simply getting in the way?
No update on the scratch sprite. Regardless of what I do with it, it fails to look any better.
The one farest to the right looks pretty cool.
The hair needs more contrast though.
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Is this sufficient contrast for the hair, or shall I go digging even deeper for yet more shades?
Hmm. Unless someone can observe a particular reason not to, I believe I will continue with the right-most palette.
It looks good now.
Try editing the shoes so they aren't so much like Ashe's.
Nice. Personally, I liked the armor you gave her in post #1, but this's good.
Brighten the darkest shade on the hair just a little bit. With it that dark, it looks more of a brown than red.
If you're having issues with the palette, take some from the game itself. It works wonders, trust me.
In my personal opinion, I think you should combine the second and fourth options.
DragonZero
03-01-08, 05:27
Hm. These Sprites are actually pretty good. I can tell that you used Ashe as the Base, though.
Whee.
Kithrixx: The funny thing is, all those colours are from the game. Which, incidentally, is the main reason getting the right shades for the hair has repeatedly proven... frustrating.
DZ: I'm not at all surprised you can tell, given that everything below the pelvis is practically unedited. I plan to fix that once I get a better feel for how I want them to look. Of course, if that's the only base you can see, I'm hopefully doing something right.
Minor update.
Hair's darkest shade slightly brightened.
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On another note, I cannot make feet when I'm uninspired. They're not feet. They're misshaped blobs.
In other words, would anyone care to give critique on something other than the feet?
I mean, talking about the feet would be fine, but... now I'm rambling.
No, we're not insane. Nope, not at all.
Altered feet will come... sometime in the future.
For now, that is all.
Disregard the blathering from last night. Except the part about critique for something other than the feet. That would be appreciated. But yes, do comment on the feet as well.
Needless to say, I found a source of inspiration for the new feet.
Whee.
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Biometal for above character. Full scratch.
I'm not entirely sure about the specific cause, but I don't like something about it... Too dark?
Another thing I can't decide is the name for the model, but that can be decided later.
Ah, a Model. >_>
And I do agree the colors could be brighter. But what kind of Model will it be? The name kinda depends on what kind. <_<
That's simple.
It's based on the X4 intro stage boss, Eregion.
Thing is, I don't want to do Model E, given that it's probably going to be though of as Enker or something.
Thus, Either model Er, or, based on its Japanese name of King Dragon, Model KD.
Decisions, decisions.
Assuming my memory is correct about the Japanese name.
Attached is my own version on how I think the hair should look.
A warning, I made my own palette from scratch for it.
Now, to crit the other areas.
The leg on the left is too dark, it dosen't make sense for it to be in so much shadow when the shoe is highlighted.
The same goes for the arm. I suggest putting in second-to-darkest shades in on it as well.
The clothing is extremely plain. I would put in some kind of design or decal, but it's entirely up to you on what to do with it.
Also, on the pants/shorts, the highlight should be moved to the left by one pixel line, and darkening added to the far right, where the light won't reach as well.
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On the clothing design: Yeah, that's the funny thing. Little designs need some form of inspiration for use.
Eh. Maybe she'll get them eventually, but not for this update.
I've addressed the shading on the arm and leg.
Much better. My only peeve with the it now is the lack of interesting design on the clothing, but that should be fixed in time when you get the inspiration.
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Tweaked a couple of things, added the grey neck... thing that can be seen on a few NPCs, and for the one on the right, transplanted the red stripe from an older version.
Several attempts to implement various designs have failed. Spectacularly.
That said, she's actually got a name now. Eh. Maybe I'll include it next update.
Kindly C+C. The sprite needs improvement, and I can't quite figure out how to do so.
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Tweaked a couple of things, added the grey neck... thing that can be seen on a few NPCs, and for the one on the right, transplanted the red stripe from an older version.
Several attempts to implement various designs have failed. Spectacularly.
That said, she's actually got a name now. Eh. Maybe I'll include it next update.
Kindly C+C. The sprite needs improvement, and I can't quite figure out how to do so.
Hmm. I really like the design on the right, though I do have something to complain about.
-Her "skirt", the shading, doesn't seem to represent the Zx-shading very much. Try to experiment with different shading possibilities.
-Also, is that even a skirt!? It seems WAAAAAAAY too short, in my opinion.
-And the hair looks somewhat... Disorganized. The shading on the outline of that could be better, too.
-Her head looks like a guy's head. Try to make her look more "feminine."
Oh, and I must say, you seem to be excellent in spriting Zx-style. In my opinion.
Another update. Whee.
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For those who want a reference for just what I'm attempting to make the waist-down look like...
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7030/croire7ox2.jpg
If you don't recognize her, go play Z4.
Yes, well, to get back to what I was saying...
The head has been altered a fair bit, the clothing has, rather obviously, been changed some, and a few misc. tweaks here and there.
Now, on the new clothes...
To summarize, shading is not my strong point. Normally, I would improve the shading a fair bit before posting this, but that's kind of the funny thing.
Regardless of what I do, it simply doesn't look right. And when that happens, it's generally a good idea to get someone else's opinion. Whee.
I see much editing in my immediate future.
GrooveMan.exe
13-01-08, 00:07
What material are her clothes made out of?
That detail goes some way to determining shading. As it is, the way you've shaded her clothes maker her outfit look like it's made from fexible metal ore plastic.
That's cool, but if it's meant to be cloth, lose the white highlights.
Well, I've provided the before and after of that.
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And on another note, the beginnings of the biometal I'm giving her...
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Model Er...
Eregion needs more love.
I suggest adding a waistband, making the end of the crotch cloth more squared-off, and thinning it by one pixel by taking away a line that's near the leg on the right.
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Two versions to the modifications, two sprites each.
What abomination is this? I don't have anything else to say?
How dull.
The second one with the squared off hanging thing and the shine.
Also, you need to rework the shading on the end of it. Looks way too blocky.
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Obvious difference between the two.
I would think so, at least.
And to the right, we have three versions of a biometal. The bottom is the one you'll find on the previous page.
The new misses looks great an the biometal farest to the right is the best looking one.
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Oh look, it's an update!
Oh look, it's just a biometal!
...
What, am I expected to have something meaningful to say with every update? Beyond mentioning the fact it's an update?
What's this? I was only on page four?
That's it?
Meh. Regardless.
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I've started work on a project related to the other sprites I've been making: Converting Eregion into ZX style.
So far, this is what I have to show for it.
Displayed are two reference heads from X4, the base, and what I've currently made.
And it doesn't even fit in that well.
The colors seem a tad too dark.
Nightmaresplody
20-02-08, 19:25
Do you even have an idea of what he's going to look like in zx style?
Nightmare, do you understand what Seth wants to do? Convert Eregion into ZX style. Not remake the character.
Anyways, brighter colours and redo the horn to look like they are sticking out more, and connect to the back of the head.
Nightmaresplody
22-02-08, 01:44
Yes, I do understand, but even making it into zx style would not just mean changing the size and outline purportions, but the shape of the figure as well. If not, then I don't exactly think using Alberts first form as a reference for be of much help...
Somethings would have to be changed in the style swap. Like the mouth for example. It's mouth doesn't seem like a huge block like thing to me...
Maybe you could reshape it to something in the zx games that seems to match...
Maybe, Bifrost's mouth?
Zan Sidera
22-02-08, 10:54
Yes, I do understand, but even making it into zx style would not just mean changing the size and outline purportions, but the shape of the figure as well. If not, then I don't exactly think using Alberts first form as a reference for be of much help...
Style isn't the same as design. Even if the design is often changed on artistic whims to fit better in a style. The ZERO series already featured X series designs without alterations, VAVA, Agile, Vajurilla FF, Colonel. ZX is an extension of the ZERO series.
Terry von Feledae
22-02-08, 11:04
Style isn't the same as design. Even if the design is often changed on artistic whims to fit better in a style. The ZERO series already featured X series designs without alterations, VAVA, Agile, Vajurilla FF, Colonel. ZX is an extension of the ZERO series.
Are you sure that they didn't only let them be as they were to make them more recognizeable?
[Edit: Rephrased. Damn that was poorly written.]
Zan Sidera
22-02-08, 11:29
Are you sure that they didn't only let them be as they were to make them more recognizeable?
They did, but the point is that they were still spritten in ZERO style, even if it wasn't a ZERO design. Any design can be drawn in any style, it just might not fit the other designs even if it is in style.
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Right, well...
The heads are in pairs. On the left of each pair is a slightly narrower-jawed version, which I ended up making because I misread something... but all the heads have had their jaws elongated some.
On the left, we have the old horns. On the right, we have the newer ones, in an attempt to make them 'stick out' more. And the green has been changed some...
Oh, and I'd love to use Bifrost's mouth as a reference. Would you, by chance, happen to have some sprites of his?
No?
No can do, then.
Nightmaresplody
26-02-08, 19:42
Style isn't the same as design. Even if the design is often changed on artistic whims to fit better in a style. The ZERO series already featured X series designs without alterations, VAVA, Agile, Vajurilla FF, Colonel. ZX is an extension of the ZERO series.
That's a very good point. I expected at least someone to mention that.
But what I'm mainly focusing on is some minor points involving the shape of the sprite. I was slightly confused when he was using Albert's fist form as a reference. I figured he wanted the basic shape of the sprite to slightly resemble it. However, I suggested something that more closely resembled the original sprite. Also, even if the sprite was to be remade in ZX style, I really couldn't see how it was possible.
I do have a suggestion. Try looking at the sprites design from the constructional point of view for that time-line. ZX takes place hundreds of years in the future, so I'd imagine there would be better technology. I'm not saying to redesign this guy entirely, He should resemble him close enough so that anyone who has played X4 would recognize him, but have some of his minor features altered to reflect upon his improvements. Bifrost has almost the perfect shape and size, so basing some features off of him wouldn't be such a bad idea.
Right, well, while I search/wait for Bifrost references for the giant mechanical dragon head, I'll show these two little pixel lumps.
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First we have this. I was advised in the chat to make the blue a bit more grey. Gray. Whichever spelling you use.
So we have, from left to right, current, slightly grey, more grey, more grey, and pretty-much-all-grey.
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Next, we have shrunken heads evidence that I pay attention to odd things. This is the beginning of a theoretically ZX style sprite of the Nightmare virus/phenomenon/freaky-tentacled-floaty-eye-laser-spam enemy from X6.
So, yeah, arguably nothing important in this post.
I think the pretty-much-all-grey color just suits her (+chinese-dragon-lady-look) the best. So...you're going to have her use the biometal to trans into a Zx style Eregion? That's actually a pretty cool idea.
Oh, and I like the Nightmare-Virus/phenomenon/freaky-tentacled-floaty-eye-laster-spam-enemies' head so far. I hope you can finish up the rest soon.
Proto Rock
28-03-08, 16:51
Out of those four palettes, I prefer the first one and the second one. She looks really nice. The strange looking head looks really interesting. Can't wait to see what you have in the next update.
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So now the Nightmare has a chest, shoulders, and arms.
A thing I've been wondering. Everything but the head is scratched.
For the head, I took Model X's head, outlined it, emptied the outline, and reshaped it. Wouldn't that technically be an edit?
Eh. Regardless, the 'legs' come later.
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And now you'll never sleep again, because the Nightmare has been assembled.
To the left we have the original Nightmare from X6, and to the right, we have the slightly smaller, yet comparatively larger Nightmare that is theoretically in ZX style.
Yeah, even if it is, when one puts them beside their respective protagonists, the one on the right is technically larger. Isn't that neat?
NetSaver.exe
29-03-08, 15:01
I didn't get a word you said, but nice ZX conversion. I like it.
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Here, we have the bad dream bug facing forward, along with it's correctly sized chest plate, and the first forward chest plate which I made a bit too large.
I included the chest plates themselves because when I looked at them, it occurred to me that they looked vaguely like biometals, and I was curious to see if anyone agreed.
Ryo Hazaki
30-03-08, 01:54
They do... They look a bit like Biometal O.
Proto Rock
30-03-08, 01:55
The chest plates do look like biometals. Nice job on the conversion. Are you planning to make some special attacks for it?
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Now, we have idle-frame two complete. And the normal sized Nightmare soul.
As for special attacks... I've got a couple in mind, but they probably won't get made until I've done the ten normal sprites.
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Right. Second palette shown earlier, minor edit to the feet. Second sprite has the arms moved down a pixel.
Which looks better?
Ryo Hazaki
10-05-08, 21:41
In my opinion, the second one looks better. The arms seem more natural.
Definitely the second one. It looks very balanced and natural.
Good work.
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Right then. Correct image this time.
As I was saying, to the left is the second image from the last post. To the right, the next step in customization.
If you would be so kind, would you point out the errors that are inevitably there?
The left leg on her curves oddly with the knee, though that may be an illusion because of the huge ankle, because it doesn't seem so on the left sprite. I think that the brightest shade of red should be slightly brighter, maybe 12 more lum. I like it, though the shoes look bland being the same colour as the pants.
Proto Rock
11-05-08, 13:54
I think the "curve" was supposed to part of the shoe. If you use a different color for the shoes, it would help define the color from pants and shoes instead of making them look blended together with the gray color. I still like her design though.
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Made the idle stances, though I can't say I'm particularly pleased with the second, fourth, and sixth. Funny, they're the ones that didn't have an equivalent in X6. Regardless.
I'm not particularly happy with the 'claws' for the second and sixth sprite, and the arms on the sixth don't look quite right to me. The arm on the left of the fourth sprite is probably a bit too straight. Problems with the 'legs' will probably become fairly evident when I get around to animating it.
I suppose that if I'm going to post anything, this is worth mentioning.
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It's a head, looks only somewhat like what I originally had in mind, and I really don't have any idea where I'm going with it.
Bit boring, too. Needs some tweaking so it's not just a yellow blob with an eye.
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Yay, it's the head again. Changed from boring yellow to almost as equally boring grey. Of course, it has something other than the head now. A neck and its left shoulder.
Still have no idea where I'm going with this... I suppose it's worth mentioning that it's made from scratch.
Ryo Hazaki
03-11-08, 03:07
Who knows, maybe it could be an upgraded Nightmare...
Anyway, before I get bricked, the head could use some detailing to break up the monotony of the gray. Shading seems okay. (but what do I know about that?)
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Chest is largely done, currently missing shoulders. There's a small stub where the left shoulder might attach, mostly to get an idea of where it might go once remade so it actually fits on the body as opposed to just looking like it's hanging there. Head has been slightly altered to restore some of the detail that was lost when it was first changed. In restrospect, it doesn't look that great. Not sure how exactly to change it at the moment...
The chest is, fairly obviously, supposed to be reminiscent of the Nightmare Virus, and the central cavity will probably get an optional glow once the sprite is further along. Assuming it gets that far at all.
I'm not sure that lighter speck should actually be there on its left side, and I'm under the impression the side itself could use mild reshaping. The very bottom of the current sprite will probably need a tweak or two when the lower torso is added on.
Right, did I miss anything there?
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Panel on the side of the head has been tweaked slightly, shoulder bar has been tweaked slighty, chest plate has been reshaded slightly, chest reshaped slightly, light speck removed, and the golden bar that would go either on the mid or lower torso added. Two versions, area between chest plate and gold bar differing by one pixel's height. I'm personally leaning toward the first one...
Looking at it again, the bar is going to need to be edited to make the transition from upper body to lower smoother, and its right shoulder area may need tweaking as well before the shoulder plate is added on. Then comes the absolutely delightful task of making a pelvis that approaches something vaguely acceptable. Then there's the fact the chest plate looks like it's jutting out above the mid torso more than it should.
Oh, and I might end up lengthening the neck slightly. We'll have to see how that looks.
Any other flaws and possible ways of fixing them anyone would like to point out?
Terry von Feledae
13-11-08, 04:23
I highly suggest making the outline of the entire body first and then shading the entire thing rather than making one piece fully at a time. That way you won't have to re-shade the thing every time you tweak something in the outline.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2209/legfaceshift.gif
Okay, I really need to not drop something for ten months and then pick it back up again, judging from when the last post with her was. I would not be remotely surprised if I'm forgetting some minor change I made somewhere along the line here. Regardless.
Assuming I'm not forgetting anything, the second lightest red has been made very slightly lighter. The silver band around her torso has been dropped one pixel, her right foot has been tweaked slightly, her left leg was remade, and her left arm has been slightly tweaked. Additionally, her left shoulder has been tweaked slightly, so I think it should flow a bit more smoothly into her actual arm. Also fixed an odd, off colour pixel in her left thumb.
You might notice that I also changed her face in the sprite on the right. Still doesn't look right, but meh, we'll see.
Thoughts?
This is better. By a lot. The face now is, unlike so many ZX sprites, lined with the body. Now my only gripes are with the legs and arms. While it is shaded like it is skin-tight, the shape suggests otherwise. The legs need to have more of the fat/muscle found behind the shins. The arms could with being a pixel longer, so the elbow is defined, really.
This is a lot better Seth. Good job.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1200/armedit1.gif
Right, her right leg has been tweaked, her face was edited again to include a pixel of her other eye, her left leg has had a couple pixels added at and near the top, and both arms have been extended a pixel. Her left arm has been changed slightly to include a highlight at the wrist, as well as darkening the main part of the arm and some very slight reshaping in general.
Unless there is something that needs to be addressed beforehand, I believe I'll start reworking her hair.
I somehow suspect this would go much faster if I stopped losing interest.
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Far left is the most recent one from before this update, middle has an actual ear, right has remade hair. Speaking of ears, if INC's collection of sprites is to be believed, visible ears appear to show up on all of three people from Z1 to ZXA. Six games, and two people have actual visible ears. One of them only appears in a cutscene.
I was tempted to make something resembling a joke about that, but it wasn't very good and Terry is probably the only other person who would get it.
Hidden Fun Stuff
04-12-09, 23:03
Seth-Rah SPRITES?! Holy hell, the things you don't know...
I suspect that the redone hair is pretty well off. I don't see any issues with it, at least.
Wait a minute... there are actual ears past Classic Megaman?
Holy- There ARE... I can only find two though... Oddly enough ones the cutscene one...
I'm really liking the one with remade hair. Its probably just due to color illusions but I think the far red line goes up a little too far, making the torso look more squarish than it should.
So, here we are, over half a year later. After confirming that, no, my skills did not magically improve despite a complete lack of practice and that I am still utterly incompetent when left to shade on my own, I returned to an old project. Several of the changes were actually made shortly after the previous update, so it's been several months since they were made. But I still did a bit more work before posting this.
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As always, the version on the left is what was previously the most recent. The version on the right actually is the most recent. For now, at least.
Hand has been altered slightly, a pixel has been changed from red to blue on her chest, and her hair was tweaked very, very slightly. And, mostly just to see how it looked, I brightened one of the upper pixels of her left eye. Not sure whether to keep it that way or not.
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Hands have been switched from gloves to misshapen flesh lumps. While there's obviously still plenty of room for improvement in that regard, I'm not quite sure just how I want to handle them. Still, having actual fleshy hands is a step in the right direction, I think. A bigger step would be actual hands instead of lumps, but we'll get there at some point.
Also replaced the darkest shade of blue with the darkest shade of grey, in the event I decide I want another shade for the skin. I think it works, but someone else might think otherwise.
RyuReiatsu
28-07-10, 15:15
Looks good to me
I personally don't like the hair. It looks like a skateboarding helmet if anything.
Ryo Hazaki
03-08-10, 19:26
Probably if he changed the shine color on the hair, it might remove that impression?
I think changing the shine could only make it worse at this point, but that's just me.
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