Philosophical Discussion

[Rainbow Dash]

Why? Because I'm bored, that's why.

First of all, I'd like to ask to avoid religious discussion. No, that doesn't mean you can't state "I'm Catholic, so I believe that life is a test of belief and character" or something for the first question, but don't get into discussing the religion itself with people, because it won't end well. Any bible thumpers or intolerant jerks will be punished severely.

Anyway, how about we start with... what our purposes in life could possibly be. I'm sure a lot of people will say "We have no purpose. We're just masses of molecules constantly marching towards chaos, which is, ironically, the natural order of the universe."

And you know what? That's probably right. Yup, I'm a cynic too. ;) That won't stop me from exploring other possibilities, though.

A popular opinion I've heard is that we're here to entertain some greater being of some sort. Like our lives are no more than some theatre production. Well, if this were true, that play would suck.

A personal guess is that we might have been made to seek this answer, even though we don't have the resources to find it out. So, the question could be the answer.

Well, I'm too tired to write more, so discuss.

[rickysio]

The answer to the universe life and everything is.... 42. Bet ya all knew that.

I'm a staunch buddhist, so dont bother bringing up the bible. Cause i dont read it, and as a result dont know what's inside, and i also have no interest.
What I think (a random thought) is that we are like characters in a The Sims game, probably The Sims : God Edition. Our existance is merely to tickle the funny bones of a unknown figure laughing out at our idiocities.

And the other is that, we are just masses of molecus without a definite purpose, and that the ultimate goal is destruction and extinction of all species, and life ceases to exist, then life springs up again without explanation, and the cycle continues. Its more of a paradox.

Life is also a paradox. Since at the beginning, before the "Big Bang" or what ever theory states, something had happened, and earth and other galaxies "appeared". What happened before the "Big Bang"? Where did the HUUUUGE clump of rock that allowed the creation of the universe come from? And how did life appear on earth? Since it was a ROCK, where did water come from? Where did plants, etc etc come from? How did LIFE come from? Life as stated in wikipedia Although there is no universal agreement on the definition of life, scientists generally accept that the biological manifestation of life exhibits the following phenomena:

Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to cool off.
Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
Metabolism: Production of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.

And as for the origin of life, There is no truly "standard" model for the origin of life, but most currently accepted scientific models build in one way or another on the following discoveries, which are listed roughly in order of postulated emergence:

Plausible pre-biotic conditions result in the creation of the basic small molecules of life. This was demonstrated in the Miller-Urey experiment.
Phospholipids spontaneously form lipid bilayers, the basic structure of a cell membrane.
Procedures for producing random RNA molecules can produce ribozymes, which are able to produce more of themselves under very specific conditions.
There are many different hypotheses regarding the path that might have been taken from simple organic molecules to protocells and metabolism. Many models fall into the "genes-first" category or the "metabolism-first" category, but a recent trend is the emergence of hybrid models that do not fit into either of these categories.[citation needed]


So... where did the "LIFE" come from? Where did the lipids, etc etc etc come from? If they came from the water, directly or indirectly, where did the water come from? When earth was just a SOLID mass of ROCK, where does water come from?

Im afraid these are questions that cannot be answered in my lifetime, and probably for ever till destruction.

And that's enough questions for a post.

[Rainbow Dash]

I always assumed that life was the result of several trials of some sort of chemical reaction forming a single celled organism which reproduced and, over the course of millions and millions of years, evolved into complex life. Of course, that still leaves the question: How did the chemical reaction happen? We can, from what I know, theorize the answer up to the big bang or what-have-you, at which point we can't go any further back. And yet we continue to try.

The answer to the universe life and everything is.... 42. Bet ya all knew that.

Yup, and the meaning of life is "People aren't wearing enough hat's."

Edit: Why do I hate General Chatters so much? Moving...

[Mikado]

Well, I think life (that as we see it) is fake, the only thruth are you.
I have a Religion, and not gonna say what, but as far I'me conserned, most of the religions come on the same at the end.

You have to know what you search.
You have to know yourself.

First I gonna say some thinks, to let you understand my definition.

Yup, looks easy as an poopie, but it's hard like an egg that looks like an peanut...
...
nevermind.

I think that everything around us is fake, so nothing that our "Life Goal" is can't be connected to the "world as we Know" wich I gonna call: "Outside World" I believe i reincarnation, but what is reincarnation? I gonna live after death. (Notice the I, we have now what I is first) And how can you live after death? You can live enternataly. Yes. But not after death. Maybe after you body's death. Soooo: that's a mistake in communication, and thruth can't have mistakes, huh? Well then everything we tell, isn't the thruth. But the same is with seeing. There are lots of shitty mistake's in it.
And if you look closer to it, then it looks like an more advanced copy of talking.
Try to tell someone who lives in 2D, how it is to live in 3D.
Explain an Blindman how it is to see.
Can't.
So our seeing isn't the thruth. But all we see is what we can do! Nope. You.
You can't see yourself, and you know your are real, you cannot disapear.
So that's the thruth. You have to know who YOU are, and search deep in yourself. Don't say the cheap talking definition, cause tthat is full of mistakes.
You can;t tell the thruth, with something that has mistakes.

So... Conclusion:
You have to find out what your life Goal is.
You have to find out who You are.
Maybe then whe get an other lifegoal, on an other life. But that's more religous what you think there would happen

Hope you have readed it! It's maybe boring (I don't think so) but It's sure twoth to read, what other think the life goal is!

[rickysio]

Shit. Im starting to think that life IS matrix.
Some one enlighten me.

[On a side note, matrix may be real for all we know.]

[Rainbow Dash]

Getting into science:

Since it was 5:00 AM when I posted my response to Rickysio, I'd just like to note that the big bang wasn't a rock. It was the mass of everything in the universe compressed into a small mass. It's explosion has to do with thermodynamics (heat travels to lack of heat), as does the theorized implosion of the universe after it reaches a point where it cannot expand anymore. As such, it's probably a cycle of explosions and implosions.

As for anyone saying "the big bang is ridiculous," no, it's not. Most of it has been proven to be entirely plausible.

As for where the big bang came from, it happens when the universe implodes. Where did that come from? The big bang.

As for where it all started... It probably just always was. "Well where did 'was' come from?" That, my friend, is something nobody will ever be able to comprehend. Existence couldn't have been created, because it always existed since existence.

"What? That makes no sense."

Exactly. We, as mortal creatures, cannot begin to comprehend anything outside of time and existence. We just can't. As Mikado said, it's like asking the blind man to describe what he saw. It's not possible.

Edit: Anybody who says "well how did the universe make perfect celestial bodies with just an explosion" obviously has never heard of the Renaissance. First of all, celestial bodies aren't perfect. They are jumbled masses of matter roughly in the shape of spheres due to gravitation. The basic principle is that they're formed by dust converging on dust.

[Hobo]

I don't have enough time to think of why I exist anymore. Live your life, you'll find out eventually what will happen to you when you die/live etc. Or you may not, depends what the real deal is. I'd say that the scientific way is the most reasonable, but the other ways are a lot more simple to explain.

[Sosryet]

Originally Posted by rickysio
[On a side note, matrix may be real for all we know.]


That is not accurate. The Matrix as seen on the movies is impossible. It simply doesn't work. There could be some sort of mind manipulation, but not like in the movies.
Why doesn't it work? Well, because it goes against the Second Principle of Thermodynamics. (By the way, what Toxic Seahorse stated so clearly as "heat travels to lack of heat" is just the Zero Principle of Thermodynamics; Thermodynamics is way more complex).
You may know the Second Principle, you probably have heard it stated like this "Chaos increases". Well, that is the conclusion that you get after you analize it in deep. To put it simply, the Second Principle states that there is no perfect machine. If you have a machine that requires energy to produce work you will allways loose some energy in the form of heat (it is that heat what increasses the chaos of the universe). You can also say that there is no perfect frigorific machine (but this statement is totally equivalent to the first one).
In the Matrix, what you see is that people is beeing bred (consumes energy). Then they are used to "create" energy using their brains. But energy cannot be created! They release that energy of their brains because they obtain it from their food. What does the Matrix feed them? What is left of the dead... So, it is a circle. They are grown and fed based on the energy of the dead. But processing the dead, breeding the humans and mantaining the whole robot society consumes energy. In fact it consumes more energy that what is exactly necesary to complete the life circle in the Matrix.
So, Matrix ain't real. Well... at least the movie version...

[Rainbow Dash]

(By the way, what Toxic Seahorse stated so clearly as "heat travels to lack of heat" is just the Zero Principle of Thermodynamics; Thermodynamics is way more complex)

Sorry, I was only stating a principle of thermodynamics. What you're talking about is the universe's natural march towards chaos that can only be halted by the consumption of energy (which, in the case of an animal, comes from food), correct? Which leads to the constant phrase "energy lost to heat" that you hear when talking about science.

However, I don't believe Rickysio was being literal. Good job answering, though. :p

[Pinkie Pie]

I've stated before. I believe there is a God. I do in fact believe Jesus once walked the earth, and I do believe in his teachings. Ergo, peace is the way, love thy Neighbour except if thy Neighbour happens to be a chav, etc..

That said - I ignore the former part of the Bible entirely. Because I'm one of those who thinks parts of it were... re-written. Hench, why I chose to ignore the old Testiment. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.
That's me and my "Relgion" in a nutshell. I think of everyone as equals.
Meaning, everyone is equally stupid, the entire of mankind has a combined IQ of -10, (the exceptions are few and far between), that the universe was a bad idea and that the answer is in fact 42.

I also hold the firm belief that God has a very sick sense of humour.
Caterpillers into Butterflies. Theres an example. A whole lifetime of getting ready for the big transformation and it lasts a day. A day.
If God doesn't have a black sense of humour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_humour), I don't know what type of humour the big guy has.

That's me and my belief, and it makes perfect sense to me. Maybe not to anyone else, but it makes sense to me.

[TwIzTeR_91]

Alright...

That whole purpose of life thing: I think we were an accident. The entire universe was a god-damn broken condem. "God" (Not a crazy awesome human, just a power) did something, and the first thing that happened when he made us was "Oh shit! What did I just do!?" Well, maybe not exactly like that, but the point was made. We were a fluke. I bet there are other universes out there, and then at one point, he made "Heaven," which is really just a place where all the animals love eachother and humans didn't get egos and kick the shit out of everything good on the Earth. Anyway, so our job is to sit here and love everyone so maybe we have a little bit of a fighting chance to at least survive before god is like okay, fuck them... *LIGHTNING*. And if we love everyone, maybe he'll be like "Aww! They love eachother!"... *HEARTSANDHAPPY*. Maybe.

I'm with Sosryet on that whole Matrix thing.

And I'm with Toxic on the whole comprehension thing. You can't comprehend something you weren't made to. Can you comprehend oblivion? No. You know what it is, but try and think it. Be a blind man and see. It doesn't happen, you can't know what it's like, and that's why people are scared of dying and going into oblivion. I think it was in Canada or Sweden they did a test recently to show that people are born believing that there is something after death, and people only will overcome that instinct through rigorous logic. I think people aren't even born that way necessarily, but that since there is no comprehension of oblivion, we weren't supposed to be there.

[Fluttershy]

Speaking of death. I've got one thing I'd like to say about it that I got from a book, but agree with it whole heartedly.

"Everyone dies alone.

My reasoning is simple. Death is a one way door, one that allows one person through at a time. I mean, everyone you love and loves you back can't come with you? They might ease the pain going through the threshold but at the end, only one can walk through.

[DragonZero]

Yeah. Like I've said before, I'm not scared of Death itself, as long as there's an afterlife. If the scientists are right and there's no spiritual stuff, no God, no big bang, and no Heaven/afterlife, Death means cessation of existance. My mind itself would fade into tasteless, black, silent Oblivion. That's part of the reason I beleive in God and the Bible. Because if they don't exist, life is just completely pointless, and nothing exists without a reason. Besides, Science itself has disproved the Big Bang andproven the existance of God already. AND I QUOTE THE TEXT BOOKS:

One of the Laws of Cell Theory: "All cells must come from pre-existing cells." Cells being the smallest unit of life, could rewrite the expression as "All life must come from another being."

As for disproving the Big Bang, scientists disproved spontaneous generation (Things just popping out of nowhere [Like the Big Bang]) about 400 years ago.

Anyway, before I get a warning for flaming scientific concepts, I'd like to state that I'm probably one of the few people on the site who beleive in Magic. The entire supernatural branch of things, actually. I mean, if there's a God then there's a Lucifer, and Demons and Angels too. So, if all those things exist, why can't Ghosts and other supernatural things exist? Dark Magic can be explained by manipulating Demons and making them perform supernatural acts, and Holy Magic can be explained either through Prayer to God and him performing a Miracle, or you having the authority to commanding Angels to perform supernatural acts.

Makes sense if you think about it, doesn't it?

[Rainbow Dash]

Big Bang andproven the existance of God already. AND I QUOTE THE TEXT BOOKS:

One of the Laws of Cell Theory: "All cells must come from pre-existing cells." Cells being the smallest unit of life, could rewrite the expression as "All life must come from another being."

As for disproving the Big Bang, scientists disproved spontaneous generation (Things just popping out of nowhere [Like the Big Bang]) about 400 years ago.

ORLY?

Science, first of all, hasn't proven the existence of God. You didn't even try to back that statement up. Nor has it disproven the existence of God.

First up, the big bang. How does disproving spontaneous generation disprove the big bang? The matter has always been there, since existence. It always was. That's the same explanation I hear for God, and it could very well be true, so what's so implausible about using it for the universe? If you asked where existence came from, I go back to the blind man metaphore. We don't know, and we never will know, because it's physically impossible for us to comprehend anything outside of time and existence.

As for where the first cells came from, while I haven't gone indepth into the subject, I am aware of theories that cells were the result of chemical reactions on the Earth. Ever heard of the Miller-Urey experiment? It's been proven that the organic compounds necessary for life can be created without life, so it's not implausible that life can be created under specific conditions.

There are other theories, too, so don't go saying that scientific theories that have been almost proven to be entirely plausible are incorrect without actually knowing for a fact that your statements are true.

Edit: Hey, look what rickysio quoted earlier that I was too lazy to remember and instead took time to go do the research myself!

There is no truly "standard" model for the origin of life, but most currently accepted scientific models build in one way or another on the following discoveries, which are listed roughly in order of postulated emergence:

Plausible pre-biotic conditions result in the creation of the basic small molecules of life. This was demonstrated in the Miller-Urey experiment.
Phospholipids spontaneously form lipid bilayers, the basic structure of a cell membrane.
Procedures for producing random RNA molecules can produce ribozymes, which are able to produce more of themselves under very specific conditions.
There are many different hypotheses regarding the path that might have been taken from simple organic molecules to protocells and metabolism. Many models fall into the "genes-first" category or the "metabolism-first" category, but a recent trend is the emergence of hybrid models that do not fit into either of these categories.[citation needed]

[rickysio]

And my question is, why arent we living our life to the fullest instead of trying to digest these whole boxes of text?
I believe in no god, for I now, and will always do, (pardon me if my next statement offends you), that gods are the invention of the foolish, the weak and the cowardy.
I've established an reputation in my class as the "Anti-Religon Man"

After all, why be afraid of death? To an organised mind, death is another adventure. (Cookies to those who know where the above is from.) Doesnt help that my avie isnt such an subtle clue

[[fish in space]]

Well, most people here know my beliefs; I'm a plain, straight up christian, not a Morman who says he's a christian or anything like that (no offense to any Mormans) (and no offense taken, Rickysio). I believe God created everything, Adam and Eve, etc... Simple as that.

[rickysio]

My doubts about the bible would be best confined just to myself.

When man manages to find out the answer, i guess his brain would implode with the massive amount of information... or because the "Creator"(NOT GOD) will kill those near the truth of our existence.

Okay, i think i better shut up now. My brain just came up with a theory about some monkies in a typewriting room.

[[fish in space]]

Umm... I think I'll just walk away now... yeah. No seriously, where did that come from?!

[TwIzTeR_91]

Right... Monkies and typewriters. I was just thinking the same thing.

Anyway, I have something I'd like to discuss (Though we can continue the whole creation thing, too). I'm not exactly sure if it fits in with philosophy, but I think it's interesting. What do you guys think about disease? Do you think we should try and find a way to heal everything that goes wrong? Or do you think we should let some things go and let people die painfully? Unpainfully? I personally have no problem with allowing someone to go in their time, and allowing them to have a painless death. I don't think people should have to die painfully, and I also don't think that people should have their lives artificially extended. The worlds crowded enough already, the last thing we need is more people to fill it up.

[rickysio]

And what you are saying is euthanasia(SP). Which has been "tried" multiple times and have been banned in many places.

[Mikado]

Some thing I was thinking about and could be inteteresting to.
How did you come to you're conclusion that you're unmartal, mortal.
I already said and I'me not doing it again.

[Iota]

I was reading an article in a magazine today about a vast spacial body that controls the universe. Discovered in 1998 it's aptly named Dark Energy. Being able to move universes over the course of hundreds of years, it's not impossible that given a large amount of time it could compile ingredients for life together.
Just thought I'd toss that into the ring.

[DragonZero]

I believe in no god, for I now, and will always do, (pardon me if my next statement offends you), that gods are the invention of the foolish, the weak and the cowardy.

Actually, I agree. WITH ONE EXCEPTION: Gods are the invention of the blissfully innocent, hopeful, and fearful. But, the whole human race is nothing but a bunch of cowards. The reason I believe in God (The Christian variety) is because that if there is not God, no afterlife, and no spiritual realm at all, then life itself is just a pointless accident. Life is just a thing to get overwith and then rot in the endless blackness of Oblivion. THAT'S DEPRESSING AS HELL (No Pun Intended)!

In the words of Uncle Hub from SecondHand Lions: "Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things that a man should believe in the most! Because... Well, those are the things worth believing in."

I stubbornly believe that there is a God who loves humanity and all existance, and I stubbornly believe that life is not a pointless vortex, simply because those are the things that are worth believing in!

I'd also like to toss out the idea that creation could have, like many orphans today, been just some crazy accident caused from an omnibeing's equivalent of having... Well... You know.

So this omnipotent being got drunk one day, and ended up in the North End in a motel with some girl he'd never met before...

Yeah.

Also, along the lines of philosophy, has anyone else noticed that people these days are MORALLY RETARDED?! I mean, these days life seems to center around drugs, s*x, alcohol, and making an extra buck (Or having a bit of fun for the current time being), no matter how much it costs you in the long run.

I'm not one of those people. :D

[Iota]

I'd say I believe in a god but not in the sense that one has to bow down and worship it. I used to believe in the Christian god but I find the applications in which Jesus is used are far to convenient to have any kind of fact to them.

[Rainbow Dash]

The reason I believe in God (The Christian variety) is because that if there is not God, no afterlife, and no spiritual realm at all, then life itself is just a pointless accident. Life is just a thing to get overwith and then rot in the endless blackness of Oblivion. THAT'S DEPRESSING AS HELL (No Pun Intended)!
At first I thought that. It was depressing, but I couldn't change my beliefs, because I'm not a hypocrite. But then I realised another possibility. What if, instead of it meaning life is pointless, it means what you do here is really all that matters?

What would it impact? We obviously could not comprehend it. But it's enough of a hope for me to live life as it really does matter.

[DragonZero]

So, if there is no afterlife, the only purpose of life would be to make the world a better place for the next generation?

That was pretty much my goal even if there IS an afterlife, but we aren't even TRYING to do that. Which ties in to my "Morally Retarded" statement. The Government is too obsessed with the almighty dollar to care about what they're doing to the planet: the air is full of poison, the ocean is full of nuclear waste, and all people care about is having fun.

Any opinions?

[Rainbow Dash]

Not exactly what I meant, but close enough. Actually, totally off the mark, but meh.

Oh, and yeah, humans are totally ****ing up the earth for ourselves. Hopefully a generation has an epiphany, and soon.

[DragonZero]

I have one, but... Yah.

[Blackbeltdude]

I believe in evolution, but that's not to say I don't believe in God. In fact, I think he's the reason there's any life at all. How exactly ARE we intelligent anyway? Really, why do we have basic instincts at all? Things that we take for granted that we naturally have are probably a result of God's will. Yes, we're evolving, and evolving the world around us, but it's God that allows us to have the ability to do that.

And it's all the same God. The Christian God is the same as the Catholic God, and even the same as the Muslim God. If you have a religious god you worship, it's the same one we all worship. The differences may be as simple as cultural preferences, and environmental nurturing of that religion, but really, they all translate to the same basic principal, right? The ideal that we can all live together peacefully and just plain co-exist? Isn't that what all religions what from their followers?

As far as a blanket meaning for life, there isn't really one. Perhaps it's to further our species and existence by having kids... but ultimately, my reason for getting up in the morning is going to be different than someone else's. The meaning for MY life won't be the same for everyone, and vice versa.

I think scientific advancements in things like steam cells and even abortion are just fine. If God didn't want these things to happen, why would he allow it? Why would he give us the ability to get the answers to make those advancements happen?

That's not to say that I believe God is behind everything we do. I still don't really know if we have a set path in life, or if we're in complete control. (Was that decision you made really your call, or did you do what you were suppose to?) I do know that life is too short to worry about each and every action you do though. I don't want to worry about how in control of my life is, I just want to see were it takes me.

And I know were it'll take me end the very end; which is the same place it takes all of us in some way. No one really knows what happens when you die, I'd love to believe you get reincarnated. (I kinda think that's why people can have natural talent; because in a past life they worked hard to get some talent.)

Frankly, everything we see right now could be a dream, and the way we see something probably isn't the same. (Why do you think there are things like wars and politics?) While we all might live in the same environment, we register it and acknowledge it differently to our own tastes. If I'm lucky, heaven isn't something that's set in stone, and really, it's something that changes to what you want heaven to be. My friends may be in my heaven, but only because I want them there, and I may be in there's be they're not one and the same. (Much like reality is for us now.)

Really, these things can be overwhelming to think about, which is why we don't have answers to them. It's just too much for anyone person to say, "this is fact, this is not." None of what we're discussing is fact, it's all belief, and until death, we won't know what fact is.


And just for the record, I'm Catholic, and haven't been to church in more than 10 years. :P I haven't even read the bible, but I believe in God, and his teachings, which is probably what God would settle for anyhow. I don't fallow the commandments to a T, and I don't even know what they all are to be honest. :P As long as I try to live as a good human being, I'm sure that's all that God asks of me.

[Iota]

In an attempt to better understand the whole higher plane thing, I often picture what I would want or do if I had already created a universe. Like, get inside God's head. If I created a whole bunch of creature that looked like me I would want them to do great and dignifying things because in that order it would mean high praise to myself if the littler versions of myself rocked out loud. I can definitely see where Blackbeltdude is coming from with the whole predestination thing since I seem to do things that just don't take any thought or reason to them very often. I believe greatly that a persons ordeals through life shape absolutely every aspect of their thinking pattern through out life. Even in infancy there's already been substantial carving into it's eventual point of view. Although, this thought derives from the often heretical theory of a chemical soul.

[Zan Sidera]

So... where did the "LIFE" come from? Where did the lipids, etc etc etc come from? If they came from the water, directly or indirectly, where did the water come from? When earth was just a SOLID mass of ROCK, where does water come from?

You should throw away the misconception that a rock is an inanimate object. For inanimite objects do not exist. Everything in this universe being both a particle and a wave and being in constant motion provide the basis for the interaction of elements. The occurance of chemical interactions, nuclear interactions and energy transferance generally create both order and chaos. Given the timespan of million years this will gradually create new and more complex substances. Said complex substances gradually becoming more and more complex till it had become a thing we now refer to as life.

[Caeder]

Note: Highlights in color and bold, etc, are definitely highlighted for a reason. Make sure you atleast read that to get an idea of what I think and what I am saying, especially before making any response.

Okay I finally read everybody's post up until this one @_@
I must say this forum is a crazy mix of religious peoples, especially with their own ideas and twists of other religions (like taking only certain parts of the bible).

For the record I'm non-spiritual agnostic (making it clear, now), which means that I do not believe or disbelieve in any religious idea, due to the fact that we have no evidence whether or not any God or spiritual entity exists or doesn't exist. I lean towards atheism because religious people, when talking about their beliefs, tend to be CREEPY AS FUCK[/B]![/B] Don't blame me for thinking so, it just comes off that way to me. I say enjoy your life and live the way you want, that doesn't mean you have to be a drunkard whore due to any lack of religion. And who cares about the morality of the world's population? 80 percent of America is Christian. 80 percent. That means that most of the morally incorrect people are... (guess what!) Christian! That's just my idea against how religion makes you morally superior.. it doesn't.

1. Why would anybody call themselves Christian if they don't believe in all of the bible?
2. Why would anybody who supports violence (even only SOME time) consider themselves Christian when it states explicitly that there is to be no murder or ill-will toward mankind? It's practically the same as Buddhism except the followers have fucked it up. People have twisted it to make the followers do what they want, that is not an innocent act.
3. Just because there is no clear explanation for the Big Bang, how does that mean that a GOD exists? The GOD explanation is just as fucked because he is magically there with no purpose but to create life and then leave it be to fuck ourselves over.
4. Why would Satan and angels exist just because you think God does? Why would magic exist just because of a view on religion? Where is this magic? Why can't I cast fireballs at people? Personally I think magic is rediculous, atleast in a real world sense. It's fine in video games but it's so hilarious to meet people who really believe in it. They try to convince you that there is a third-eye and you feel a tingle when you hold a pencil in the middle of your forehead... but only the ones who believe in it before hand feel it, while others are oblivious. Why is that? Perhaps these people are just way too willing to believe in fantastical things?

Even with my objections to Christianity and any other religion, I will say again that Atheism and anything else is just as unproven as the rest.

With that said, I am a very well off person without a belief system. I find it rediculous to think there is a force in the universe guiding us somehow or bringing us life. If you want to believe in any religion or spiritual belief, go ahead, but you're going to creep me out a bit if you bring it up in conversation unless it's a discussion.

EDIT as of March 7th, 2007:
Why is it that I seem to kill threads? @_@; Did I go over the line?
I meant to get believers to ask questions and answer some about their beliefs. You may say that is biased and I am trying to provoke my own answers from a pre-written agenda, but it is fair discussion, amirite? Oh well, atleast I wasn't banned XD; I was kind of worried I went too far...